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The NCFIC movement is an interesting mix of patriocentricity and ecclesiocentricity as I have observed over the past few years. But one area I haven’t written very much about is the affinity for the Pre-Civil War culture many of their leaders have, which fits quite nicely into their other hierarchal teachings. This video was produced by Dan Horn, one of the men who was speaking out against rap music. Look at these two interesting takes on the slave narratives:

 

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Any thoughts?

35 Responses to what exactly are the NCFIC views of slavery?

  • Avelinn says:

    Honestly, thatmom, I have so many thoughts about this. I always have to make sure I have an empty stomach when I watch this stuff (haven’t watched the second one yet due to time) because some of it makes me so sick and angry. I have to take deep, deep breaths. To tell you the truth, I am pretty aware of the NCFIC and their revisionist views on history. They speak to a level of idolatry that is pretty troubling. The problem is, and I hope I’m not causing division here, I see a level of this idolatry throughout the evangelical church in America. Certainly not to this extent. Most evangelicals know better than to try and justify slavery by any means. But part of the reason that I feel the church is so segregated and I have had a hard time in some instances fitting in with the larger evangelical movement in America, is because of some of these beliefs. The idea that manifest destiny is involved in why millions of Native Americans were displaced and slaughtered and millions of Africans were enslaved, raped, and abused. It seems to me that the church as a whole has a mentality that “slavery was bad, but…” And I feel a lot of it comes from the need to believe strongly that this is a Christian nation, and that we are who we are and have what we have because we have been blessed by God as a result of our Christian foundations. I find all of these ideas to be in contrast with the Biblical Jesus and I absolutely reject the idea that slavery, at least the peculiar institution that we saw here in the States was any part of God’s will. Nor do I accept the savage treatment of the Natives to have been God’s will either. That’s just how I personally feel.

    I have read that Doug Phillips once referred to slavery as God’s way of protecting the economy in America. And I remember feeling sorrow after the earthquake happened in Haiti because they felt a need to go down there and change the people there. They were convinced that they needed to change their culture and make it more like ours, because of course, real American culture is Christian culture, and that is why we have prospered. Of course, I remember Pat Robertson expressing similar beliefs after the earthquake. He indicated that the earthquake occurred because of occult-like practices that happened there and insinuated that God was not blessing (the way has blessed us) them because of those practices. I have seen John Piper indicate that natural disasters have occurred in this country and in others because of sin in certain people’s lives. So the idea presented by the church, to me is, if your life is prospering, then it’s an indication that God is blessing you, and if you are not prospering, it’s because you are not following the one true God.

    So I have a question for you. And again, I’m not meaning to be divisive, I’m just really trying to understand. While I find the statements above to be idolatrous, troubling, ignorant, and just plain disgusting, what do you believe, based on your theology and understanding of God? Because I know that many black Americans, myself included, have felt uncomfortable at times, and sometimes unwelcome as a part of white evangelicalism, because our ideas and feelings about this country do not line up with those of many mainstream evangelicals. Whether it’s historically or politically. So while I see blatant idolatry and yes, an approval of the systematic racism we see within the NCFIC and others like them, I wonder if, to a lesser degree perhaps, these ideals are somewhat held by evangelicalism at large.

    Again, I don’t want to be a distraction here. I know that you are primarily focused on the problems within the NCFIC movement, and I respect that, as well as understand your concerns. So if you would feel better sending me an email with your thoughts, I wouldn’t mind that. But if you feel comfortable addressing them here, I would like to know how other evangelicals feel. Because it feels to me like these ideals are held, although to a more subtle degree, within the mainstream church in America.

  • Anthea says:

    Hello
    A week ago husband took us to see Ken Ham speak in Surrey. Just in case there’s a Surrey in Texas or something, I want to explain that I am in the UK. He got to a part of his talk where he deals with ‘race’ and genetics. In short, we are all descendants of Adam, we are all a bit brown, some browner than others. Since we are all genetically related, the only ‘interracial’ marriage is between believers and those who don’t follow Christ. He swiftly showed a couple of overheads, and the audience smiled and nodded.

    In the middle of it, he said, so quickly that I almost missed it, “I get a very emotional reaction when I present this material in the States.” I noticed that there was a sort of bemused silence, as if he’d suddenly inserted a phrase in Mandarin or something. He did explain why any objection to marriages across people groups is unbiblical, but very briefly. Footnote: the UK is the ‘mixed marriage’ capital of the world. the fastest rising racial group in the UK is ‘mixed race’.

    However, there is a fly in the ointment. British society is damaged by entrenched class prejudice, and I have observed that the US is scarred by ‘race’ prejudice. It won’t go away if we don’t admit it exists. All the panellists denied that there was any element of racism in their arguments about rap music (and culture in general). I’ve even seen articles that disagree with the NCFIC video and yet go on to state, Well, it was cultural racism, not the common or garden racism.

    Thank you, Karen, for posting these videos. I can’t watch them properly until the children are safely in bed. So keep them up. please.

  • Granddad says:

    Avelinn,
    I agree with a substantial portion of what you’ve written, but must take a few exceptions:

    “I absolutely reject the idea that slavery, at least the peculiar institution that we saw here in the States was any part of God’s will. Nor do I accept the savage treatment of the Natives to have been God’s will either.”

    Nothing happens apart from God’s full knowledge, which means every event occurs as part of his decrees. Nothing takes him by surprise. Since God is omnisicent and “knows” event A will occur in our future (there is no “time” with God) it follows that he has willed it. We have no problem accepting the truth that God foreordained the Cross, yet we balk at the notion he foreordained 9/11, WWII, the Cherokee Trail of Tears, or the kidnapping and involuntary servitude of countless people from Africa. Either God is totally sovereign, meaning he is in absolute full control of everything, or he’s somehow restrained and limited and thus not really God at all. I much prefer the former.

    As regards natural disasters, I would not presume to pontificate on why God decided to allow a volcano to erupt in Mexico or a tsunami crash into Japan. Deuteronomy 29:29 is all I need to know.

    I do not want to diminish your feelings of discomfort when you’ve been in a predominatly Anglo-Saxon church or similar gathering, nonetheless, I must say I think that you may sometimes be “whistling past a graveyard.” There are some cultural differences between churches that are predominatly white and those predominatly black — and yes, I have attended black churches. Different, but not better (except when either has forgotten that their purpose is to expound the gospel of Christ).

    Please elaborate on this: “because our ideas and feelings about this country do not line up with those of many mainstream evangelicals. Whether it’s historically or politically.” I’m not sure I like what I think you’re saying.

    Thanks for your observations and comments.

  • Avelinn says:

    Grandad,

    I really want to respond to what you have said and have this discussion, but, I admit, I have reservations. Also, I’m a home schooling mom to four kids, so my attentions are divided. I will briefly respond with both a question and an answer:

    I come from a Calvinist/Reformed/Election background. Although I have since had some reason to rethink some of this theology. If what you are saying is true, does this mean that every abortion that occurs is somehow the will of God? If so, why do so many Christians spend so much time criticizing President Obama’s stance on abortion and relationship with Planned Parenthood? Also, I am not saying that nothing bad that happens is ever under the umbrella of God’s will. I’m rather questioning the idea that the church has a tendency to dismiss the significance of slavery and the gross sin that occurred to Natives and Africans during that time by hiding behind the fact that it was Manifest Destiny. As to what you asked me to clarify, I’m not sure exactly what you are asking. In essence all I’m saying is historically speaking (for the most part, but not in all cases) the way that blacks and whites look at American history and politics (including the social structure of our nation) is different. And that perspective carries itself into the church as well, causing divisions and confusion and a sense by some AA that if they don’t change the way they view American history and/or politics, that they are not welcome in the mainstream American church movement. I hope that clarifies my statements.

  • Gooner says:

    Grandad,

    I am also ‘formerly’ a Reformed believer. I distance myself from much of Calvinism now, because I believe there are huge gaps in the Biblical narrative when it comes to a Calvinistic way of seeing things. Your comment “Either God is totally sovereign, meaning he is in absolute full control of everything, or he’s somehow restrained and limited and thus not really God at all” to me is a perfect example of how black-white thinking can go wrong. I don’t think that quote fits the Bible at all. I think power and control are two different things. God is all knowing and all powerful of course, but is He in CONTROL of all events? I don’t believe so, though this isn’t weakness on His part. Rather, he cedes some degree of control to free will and some degree of control was given to Satan after the Fall. God can still govern, but He has limited Himself in some of things He can/will do. Otherwise, then every act, sinful or not, is God-caused. Abortion, starvation, murder, poverty, etc etc.
    Now, how does this fit into what we are discussing? I have to agree with Avelinn when she makes the point that if you believe in Manifest Destiny, then you have to, on some level, give a THUMBS UP to how this nation was settled, how the slaves were imported, and how the American Indians were slaughtered. God was all sovereign, so He caused all that to come about. Why? Perhaps because the Europeans were a godlier people. If, on the other hand, you view God as leaving open various elements of history to man’s choices (while still being a holy God), then you are able to view slavery and such as acts of sinful man, proof that nations will always destroy other nations in the name of their god. That’s just how man is. It doesn’t mean God’s seal of approval is on one nation rather than the other.
    Finally, as Avelinn remarked, all you have to do is look at many African American evangelical’s view of history versus many Europeans descendent’s view of American history to see the disconnect. If God is all sovereign (and approving) in our nation’s building, I can see how an AA evangelical could find it hard to find hope and meaning in their people’s history.

  • Granddad says:

    Gooner & Avelinn,

    We could certainly have an interesting discussion, couldn’t we? Gooner, I’m guessing you lean towards Open Theism and perhaps the concept of Middle Knowledge . . .which I, as you would surmise, reject.

    Glad to hear both of your perceptives. If this was a different blog I might respond in more detail, but I do not wish to shift the discussion away from the important issues.

  • Avelinn says:

    Grandad,

    I think you are wise to not want to go into more detail. That was part of the reservation I had about answering the theological questions to begin with. I didn’t want to hijack the thread. Gooner and I are married, and no, we would not consider ourselves to be Open Theists. We see loop holes on both ends of the spectrum, honestly. The truth is, we don’t know exactly where we fall in regards to these questions. And in this season of life, we feel peace in saying that we just don’t know everything. What we do know is Christ, and Him crucified. And we know that whatever comes our way in life, that he has promised that all things come together for good for those who love Him and are called according to His purpose. So while we don’t feel comfortable saying that all things that occur are according to the Will of God, we believe He is working. And that He is with us always. Thank you for your response and for the grace you responded with. And yes, we could have interesting discussions. Maybe another time…

  • Peaceful Honesty says:

    That second video is just heartbreaking. It is testimonies from the 1930′s of slaves who had lived before the Civil War, read by black actors of today. It will make you cry. How horrifying that some slave owners beat their slaves in a criss-cross pattern to lift up squares of flesh, and then rubbed salt and red pepper in the wounds… One woman tried to escape while she was a nursing mother, and the bloodhounds found her and chewed off her breasts before the hunters could call them off. She lived, but another mother had to nurse her baby… In some cases they fed little slave children cornmeal mush in troughs at the side of the house, like any litter of animals… At 33 and 44 minutes are two stories of slave owners who loved their slaves and took good care of them, but it was rare. How could the mothers go on when their children were sometimes taken away? I have two little children, and it broke my heart to hear how one mother fell on the road crying when the wagon pulled away with her babies. They gave the children candy to distract them during this.

    I was raised on a farm in Oklahoma, and it is miserable to work in the fields. I’ve been auctioned off as part of a youth group fundraiser, and it is degrading. Nothing I’ve ever experienced comes close to these slaves’ stories, but I could feel the dirt and the sweat watching that video.

    There is no way that anyone could say in good conscience that slavery was the will of God to support the 19th century American economy. That truly is making an idol out of America. Those slave owners HAD to believe that African Americans were inferior, and almost animals, to let them live in such terrible conditions and treat them in such horrible ways. I wonder if any of the leaders in the NCFIC have truly researched what was involved in slavery. I hope for their sake that they haven’t, because they are almost monsters to believe that time was godly, if they know any of the realities.

    I’m going to save the link for my children to see when they’re old enough, thank you so much for posting it.

  • Anthea says:

    We also have to be careful that we don’t use theology to pressure people into saying that something was right when it was not. If the history of abortion is seen as a shameful blot on our history , then other wrongs , such as slavery should be denounced, too. Yes, wrongs. We cannot use God as our excuse — in effect, that He should have stopped us if He didn’t want us to do it.

    And even if one does not find it comfortable to listen to the perspective of groups that have been mistreated in the church or the community as a whole, these testimonies must be heard. Or, in another hundred years, someone will make a film about how 21st-century American Christians really preferred to be in separate churches.

  • Anthea says:

    BTW, Douglas Wilson wrote an article giving advice and support to ‘Reformed’ rappers. The same one who wrote that book on slavery.

  • thatmom says:

    Avelinn, I love your questions and hearing you express what you see/feel/think from a whole different standpoint than the men in the video.

    Had I lived 150 years ago, I hope I would have been an abolitionist. There is absolutely nothing whatsoever “Christian” about slavery. Using Scripture to justify man-stealing and marinating it in “God’s will” is a cop out. While I completely believe in God’s sovereignty, even over those things that are bad, it is never God’s will for someone to sin. I really had to wrestle with this as I volunteered at a crisis pregnancy center because I see slavery in the same light as abortion and the extermination of the jews as well. I hear echoes of the same sin in the voices that are crying out for hierarchy everywhere, especially in the evangelical church right now. I hear exactly what you are saying you see and feel in the evangelical church, both in the areas of race and also attitudes toward women. (I am not saying someone can’t interpret scripture to say that only men should be elders and pastors because I think you can make a case for that.) BUT, women being prevented from praying or speaking or reading Scripture in worship simply because they are women (and innately flawed and more easily deceived yada yada) stings. I feel it personally, though I am sure it isn’t on the same level as you feel the racism.

    The most powerful statement you made is that there is this idea in evangelicalism that American culture is the best, as determined by old white men. I really think this is the standard. Look what has happened in the Republican party, for example. They keep putting people like Bob Dole and John McCain and Mitt Romney forward as candidates and all it does is send the message that country club republicanism is their agenda. It is any wonder so many young conservatives have said enough is enough and held their noses and left the party? (Political rant over now.) Caveat: I love old white men, am married to one.

    Lets look at this idea again in the church via the adoption issue. How many people involved in foreign adoptions maintain an attitude of superiority that they “stooped down and rescued a child from their culture?” Having spent 60 years not knowing any background of my own life, I can’t tell you the liberation I experienced just knowing about my ancestors, for good and bad. I am troubled at what I see and hear in option circles.

    As far as Manifest Destiny etc, I do believe God has blessed our nation, not because we are so great but because He has chosen to bless us in spite of our personal and collective and national sins. But what the revisionist historians, on both ends of the spectrum, seem to forget is that America is great BECAUSE we are so diverse and we are all immigrants. (except Native Americans).

    One more thing, and I know this is a bit rambly, but I have so many thoughts. We have to remember the words of Jesus: “He said to His disciples, “Offenses will certainly come, but woe to the one they come through! ” ~ Like 17:1

  • thatmom says:

    Avelinn, one more thing….always one more thing!!!!!

    I, too, am content not knowing everything, I love the scripture Granddad mentioned: Deut. 29:29:

    “The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things that are revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may do all the words of this law.”

    I think too often people want their theology tied up in a neat little bundle. We Reformed people have strong leanings this way….that is the appeal of the catechisms, I think. But the truth is that we DON’T know everything this side of heaven. This is one reason I keep stressing obedience to the one anthers….something concrete we DO know and that we are commanded to obey. I have my hands full just trying to do that!

  • Persis says:

    Long time lurker and finally commenting –

    I couldn’t finish watching the first video because I was starting to become too angry. Slavery in ancient times bore absolutely no resemblance to slavery in the South. In the US it was clearly racially based whereas in Rome, anyone could be a slave regardless of his/her ethnicity – even Roman citizens. Therefore, to use Paul and Peter to justify a system founded on racism is misusing scripture IMO. Also in Philemon, Paul yanks the rug out from under slavery by charging Philemon to receive Onesimus as a brother. If the gospel is really put into practice, we would gladly obey Paul’s injunction that there is neither slave nor free .

    I hold to reformed theology and don’t understand why God does what He does, but that is never any reason to stop calling sin a sin. Also, all people regardless of their culture are made in the image of God. No one is better because of the color of their skin or their culture. We all need a savior.

  • Avelinn says:

    Hi, thatmom. Thank you so much for your response. I wanted to let you know I read them, but I can’t reply now. I actually fell through some dry wall in my attic to my garage this afternoon while looking for Christmas lights. I’m okay. But battered and bruised. I’ll try to reply in a day or so. Thanks again.

  • Granddad says:

    Avelinn,
    I thought that sort of thing only happened in comedy movies.
    Glad you were not seriously hurt, but you do know that this will become fodder for future ribbing, don’t you?

  • Avelinn says:

    LOL. Yes, I recognize the humor and irony of my clumsiness, and I realize that it will be fodder for the rest of you. I mean, it’s funny now, but it wasn’t when I was falling five feet( and only five feet due to a very sturdy shelf built on to the top of our garage). Thankful to just be sore and bruised. Hope you guys have a great weekend!

  • Avelinn says:

    Went back to watch the first video again and it’s private. It seems your posting it gave Dan Horn reason to cover his tracks…

  • thatmom says:

    Wow, Avelinn! I should keep a running list of how many times this sort of thing has happened with those in the patriocentricity camp. Very, very telling.

  • ruth says:

    Avelinn – thanks for your insights. I agree with you that the views of some in the church towards American slavery is nauseating. I just read a biography of John Newton and was haunted for a couple of nights by some of the happenings on the slave ships. As a former abortion fighter/street counselor, I hope that I would have been side by side with Karen in fighting slavery. May God open the eyes of these FOOLISH Christians who tolerate sin in the name of justifying the south. Slavery was a stench in the nostrils of God, and was fueled NOT BY GODS WILL but by greed and cruelty and a gross misappropriation of the NT scriptures. Anyone who justifies it ought to try it out on their family and see what they think. Can anyone imagine Jesus separating a family, beating people, owning people, raping women or keeping others in poverty? If not, shut up.

  • Joella says:

    Everyone should have their families watch, “Proud” on Netflix. A great remembrance of WWII and unfortunately, racism.

    Interesting to learn that,Samuel Langhorne Clemens, better known as Mark Twain was married by Harriet Beecher Stowe’s [author Uncle Tom's Cabin, 1852] father, Thomas K. Beecher, in 1870. Thomas K. Beecher was the senior pastor of Park Church for 50 years. He was also one of 13 children born to Lyman Beecher, the father of the Second Great Awakening. Thomas K. Beecher, like two of his siblings (Henry Ward Beecher and Harriet Beecher Stow), were guiding lights in the American Abolition Movement. Members of the Langdon family who were close friends of the Beechers were Samuel Clemmons’ in-laws. (Samuel Clemens was also known as “Mark Twain.”) Thomas K. Beecher married Julia Day 1857, cousin of his previous wife [Olivia Day-she died] and granddaughter of Noah Webster, the author of Webster’s Dictionary.

    Sibling Rivalry: Henry and Harriet opposed Slavery, but Thomas defended it!

    Thomas K. Beecher was a close friend of Mark Twain, maybe so close he hated what he saw. (SLAVERY)

    Mark Twain said: source Wikipedia

    “I am greatly troubled, I wrote ‘Tom Sawyer’ (1876) & ‘Huck Finn’ (sequel, 1884) [took 10 yrs. to write] for adults exclusively, & it always distressed me when I find that boys and girls have been allowed access to them. The mind that becomes soiled in youth can never again be washed clean. I know this by my own experience, & to this day I cherish an unappeased bitterness against the unfaithful guardians of my young life, who not only permitted but compelled me to read an unexpurgated Bible through before I was 15 years old. None can do that and ever draw a clean sweet breath again on this side of the grave.”

    http://www.marktwainmuseum.org/index.php/education/for-kids
    Books written by Mark Twain for kids.
    Tom Sawyer Abroad, The Prince and the Pauper and Tom Sawyer Detective?

    https://www.aft.org/newspubs/periodicals/ae/fall2002/trillingsbburns.cfm Every summer for 20 years Mark Twain’s family spend in Elmira, N.Y. where Thomas K. Beecher: Teacher of the Park Church at Elmira, New York, 1854-1900.

    http://www.edenucc.com/docs/2013/november/Our%20Spiritual%20Inheritance.pdf

    Something to reflect, ponder and consider as you walk your Christian faith.

  • Avelinn says:

    Anthea-thank you for the links.

    Ruth-Thank you for your encouragement.

    thatmom- I’m sorry I haven’t been able to reply to your response. I’ve been super busy with holiday craziness and sick kids. I’ll try to if I get an extended period of time soon. But if not, I just want to let you know that I GREATLY appreciate your honesty, and your brave willingness to engage in a conversation that much of evangelicalism shrinks away from. Thank you.

  • Granddad says:

    Karen,
    Thabiti’s article was terrific. I must confess I’ve struggled with this topic for sometime. I do recognize that Dabney was spot-on theologically and that Voddie Baucham has his soteriology correct inspite of areas where I think they belong to the “crazy Confederate uncle” category. How to handle this conflict is what I stuggle with.

    Voddie has a new book out about the life of Joseph — probably a very good book — but I’m not sure I would buy it; and that may be my loss. He has spoken at conferences with men I greatly respect (i.e. Michael Horton) on topics that have nothing to do with patriarchy or home schooling and I’m annoyed that he’s there. I do believe I’m the one with the problem, I’m just not sure how to deal with it. I think I quite often throw the baby out with the bath water.

    Logical fallacies irritate me and I know I’m making an ad hominen argument against anything Voddie says. Shame on me! That being said, I can strongly disagree with him about a number of topics and still receive benefit from what he has to say on other issues. I must learn to do both.

  • thatmom says:

    Granddad, I guess my take is a bit different.

    At the root you have to remember crazy uncles are still crazy uncles and in this case, while they may be correct in their soteriology in words, their teachings and actions all rolled up together still make them crazy uncles, always to be wary of, never to trust completely. In some families, you have to stay as far away from crazy uncles as though your life, including spiritual, depend upon it. My recommendation for most if not all the patriocentrists.

  • Avelinn says:

    I do have thoughts on Voddie Baucham as well, but time doesn’t permit. He’s been criticized as he is indicating that he is completely surprised by the Dan Horn video and the NCFIC’s views on these things. I’m not sure how that is possible considering his friendship with these guys, but he seems to be saying that he is shocked. Don’t know what to say about that. I’ve read that he named one of his kids after a confederate general. I can’t confirm that though.

  • thatmom says:

    Avelinn, I have read where Voddie has little respect for Abraham Lincoln and had hailed Dabney himself, too. It puzzles me why he claims this is new information. I also know a couple who challenged him on all these things a few years ago, back when he was in thicker with Doug Phillips and he was surprised then, too. ;/

  • Jack Brooks says:

    People pick comrades based on shared sympathies in particular areas, and don’t always check like they should. Haven’t you had friendships where you were startled to find something unusual out about that person, even though you thought you knew them?

    The God’s will thing is helped by distinguishing between moral commandments (expressed in the Bible) and God’s administrative oversight of the planet. Same word (“will”), but two different meanings. God is morally outraged by a lot of stuff that He eternally planned to let happen in His administration of the world. We wonder how that can be, but God isn’t a man, so He is eternal, king, and judge all at the same time. He foreknew that the Jews would offer their children in burnt sacrifice, allowed them to sin in that way, and at the same time (in Jeremiah) expressed outrage at them for doing it.

  • Anthea says:

    ’12 Years a Slave’ has just come out in the UK. I have no desire to see it, having read the autobiogs of the Brit Mary Prince and the American Frederick Douglass. I found this review does reflect some of my views:

    http://www.vulture.com/2013/10/movie-review-12-years-a-slave.html

    I found the depiction of slavery in the kiddied Disney musical, ‘Song of the South’ was better. Because even a slave who wasn’t beaten was still routinely humiliated. My son asked why the young white lady was telling off the aged black slave. He was shocked to see her treat him as if he were a child. I was able to talk about how wrong it was that his dignity was taken away in that cavalier fashion. It’s a subtle point, far more effective than a blood fest.

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Tim Keller also says:
“The Christian gospel is that I am so flawed that Jesus had to die for me, yet I am so loved and valued that Jesus was glad to die for me. This leads to deep humility and deep confidence at the same time. It undermines both swaggering and sniveling. I cannot feel superior to anyone, and yet I have nothing to prove to anyone. I do not think more of myself nor less of myself. Instead, I think of myself less.” ! Tim Keller in The Reason for God.
Oswald Chambers says:
"If we simply preach the effects of redemption in the human life instead of the revealed, divine truth regarding Jesus Himself, the result is not new birth in those who listen. The result is a refined religious lifestyle, and the Spirit of God cannot witness to it because such preaching is in a realm other than His." ~ Oswald Chambers
Phillip E. Johnson says:
“When pressed in interviews to name my heroes, I have spontaneously responded that they are homeschooling mothers! To me, the heroic mothers who nurture the next generation of faithful Christians are among the leaders of the church.” ~ Phillip E. Johnson
John Stonestreet says:
“C.S. Lewis said that for every new book we read, we ought to read three old ones. But I think for every latest, greatest new homeschooling book you read, go find three old homeschooling moms and ask them what happened and what worked.” ~ John Stonestreet
Carolyn Custis James says:
“The power of our theology comes alive when we take the truth personally. Holding God at arm’s length—no matter how much theology we think we know—will never make us great theologians. We have to learn to write our own names into the plot. God will always be the subject of our theological sentences but our sentences are incomplete until we make ourselves the direct objects of his attributes…..Simply knowing a lot of theological ideas, no matter how orthodox and sound they are, will never turn us into great theologians. Theology isn’t really theology for us until we live it. Not until we learn to make explicit connections between what we know about God and the race we are running will we taste the transforming power of our theology. Fixing our eyes on Jesus means reminding ourselves of all that He is to us now. He brings meaning to our routines and energizes us to tackle the difficult tasks at hand. Fixing our eyes on Jesus gives us hope to offer disheartened husbands and hurting friends, and the wisdom we need to raise children who will fix their eyes on Him, too.” ~ from Carolyn Custis James in When Life and Beliefs Collide
Anne Ortlund says:
“So what do we do to encourage them to grow inwardly, to become resourceful and creative, to think, to meditate, to lay the foundation for growing up well? Don’t push, but affirm them! Give them the sense that all is well, that their rate of progress is acceptable to you, that you like them just the way they are…..Guide them but be delighted in them. Let them know that life is to be reached for and drunk of deeply…..Enthusiastic, that’s how you want them to grow up! The word comes from “en Theo,” or “in God.” Support them with words of faith, hope, and love, and in that framework “in God,” they’ll be ready to tackle everything. Fears and cautions are built in at an early age but so is courage! Tomorrow’s world will be different if your child has been released to experiment, to risk, to lead others, to pursue righteousness, to be an affecter for good in society, to go courageously after God.” ~ Anne Ortlund in Children Are Wet Cement
J.C Ryle says:
"Kindness, gentleness, long-suffering, forbearance, patience, sympathy, a willingness to enter into childish troubles, a readiness to take part in childish joys, these are the cords by which a child may be led most easily, these are the clues you must follow if you would find the way to his heart." ~ J. C. Ryle in The Upper Room
Clay Clarkson says:
“Many Christian parents, myself included, tend to speak to children as though they were Pharisees. We can speak harshly and with judgment, implying by our manner that their hearts are hard and resistant. But this attitude is not justified by Scripture. There is no record of Jesus ever speaking to a a child in a harsh tone. When the Gospels record Him speaking to a child, it is always with gentleness. Our children are not our adversaries. Though our children’s hearts are corrupted by sin, they are not hardened sinners who have made conscious choices to reject the Savior. Our children are simply immature and childish. That’s why children need love and compassion, not harshness and guilt.” ~ Clay Clarkson in Heartfelt Discipline
Tim Kimmel says:
“Grace can’t be some abstract concept that you talk about in your home. It has to be a real-time action that ultimately imprints itself in your children’s hearts. To talk about grace, sing about grace, and have our children memorize verses about grace – but not give them specific gifts of grace – is to undermine God’s words of grace in their hearts. Grace means that God not only loves them but that He loves them uniquely and specially. The primary way to give our children grace is to offer it in place of our selfish preferences.” ~ Tim Kimmel in Grace-Based Parenting
Chuck Swindoll says:
"You want to mess up the minds of your children? Here's how - guaranteed! Rear them in a legalistic, tight context of external religion, where performance is more important than reality. Fake your faith. Sneak around and pretend your spirituality. Train your children to do the same. Embrace a long list of do's and don'ts publicly but hypocritically practice them privately...yet never own up to the fact that its hypocrisy. Act one way but live another. And you can count on it - emotional and spiritual damage will occur. "
Kathy Thile says:
"I say this gently, as the parent of grown kids, knowing *insert parenting guru* is also the parent of grown kids: we have wonderful children — he does, I’m sure — and so do I. But without even knowing his children I can know this about them: they are not perfect. They hurt. They make mistakes. They struggle. They are prideful and overly simplistic at times; and crippled by shame and hesitancy at others. Yes — they are beautiful examples of human beings, his children (I assume), and mine (I know.) But they are not perfect. If they were, they would not be human. If it were possible to raise children to perfection, then God would have sent a parenting method, not Jesus. Our marching orders are not to raise our children by a method to be like *insert parenting guru* children. Our marching orders are to be Christians to and with our children." ~ Kathy Thile
Anna Quindlen says:
“The biggest mistake I made is the one that most of us make while doing this. I did not live in the moment enough. This is particularly clear now that the moment is gone, captured only in photographs. There is one picture of the three of them sitting in the grass on a quilt in the shadow of the swing set on a summer day, ages 6, 4 and 1. And I wish I could remember what we ate, and what we talked about, and how they sounded, and how they looked when they slept that night. I wish I had not been in such a hurry to get on to the next thing: dinner, bath, book, bed. I wish I had treasured the doing a little more and the getting it done a little less." ~ Anna Quindlen
Winston Churchill says:
“My education was interrupted only by my schooling." ~ Winston Churchill
John Taylor Gatto says:
"The shocking possibility that dumb people don’t exist in sufficient numbers to warrant the millions of careers devoted to tending them will seem incredible to you. Yet that is my central proposition: the mass dumbness which justifies official schooling first had to be dreamed of; it isn’t real." ~ John Taylor Gatto
Fred Rogers say:
“Play is often talked about as if it were a relief from serious learning. But for children play is serious learning. Play is really the work of childhood.” ~ Fred Rogers
thatmom says
"The truth is that the way a marriage becomes truly heavenly is for each husband and each wife to pursue, really pursue, a relationship with Jesus Christ, to commit to obey the Word of God, to set aside each of their own agendas and paradigms, and then as they walk in the Holy Spirit, as they are sanctified, a little at a time each day, they will grow closer to one another. Godly wisdom will manifest itself in purity, peace, gentleness, mercy, a willingness to submit to one another, the fruits of the spirit, and no role-playing (the true meaning of hypocrisy). (James 3:17)" ~ thatmom
thatmom says:
"We need to approach our children not as character projects, but rather, we must see them with hearts of sympathy, with compassion and understanding, and with ears that listen. You see, homeschooling is not about lesson plans and research papers and standardized tests. Homeschooling is about building a relationship with our children, friendships that will last our entire lives on earth and clear into eternity. Homeschooling is merely the tool whereby we build those relationships." ~ thatmom
thatmom knows:
As a homeschooling mom, I have realized that everything, ultimately, is outside of my own control. I have learned that the unique circumstances that happen in my family have occurred because God’s plan is so much bigger than my own. It is knowing this truth about God and in experiencing that truth with those in my home that has enabled us to face past challenges and that will prepare us for all those difficulties that still lie before us.
thatmom realizes:
If I think about 37 years of marriage, times the number of loads of laundry I have done for 2 parents, 6 children and 1 grandma, I am amazed to know that I have washed, dried, folded, (sometimes ironed) and put away roughly 27,526 loads of laundry. That is over 215,000 socks! Or, in that same amount of time, provided 38,324 meals for a family and sometimes guests. Or that I have overseen nearly 21,500 hours of education of one sort or another during that time. Just thinking of these numbers takes my breath away. ~ thatmom
thatmom says:
"Real books from the library, a tub of art supplies, being read stories rich in vocabulary, a variety of good music, the daily discussion of God’s Word and how it relates to the world around him, and the attention of a loving parent who includes him in all the activities of real life are the secrets to a great learning experience for children." ~ thatmom
thatmom says:
"Being a mom is sort of like being all the people who crowd into a basketball arena all at once. Sometimes we are the players, the ones who are responsible for everything that is going on and our presence is front and center. Sometimes we are the coaches, giving comfort and encouragement, instructing with a clipboard in hand. Other times we are the referees, no striped shirts required but whistles are a must to break up the disputes when the game isn’t played as per the rules. Still other times we are the fans, cheering wildly from the stands, shouting from a distance but not from the floor. And then there are the days when we are the cheerleaders, the ones who scream 'Yeah, you can do it.' " ~ thatmom
thatmom says:
“The beauty of homeschooling is building relationships within our families and inspiring our children to become lifelong learners, gently leading them into the truth of Scripture and trusting that the work we have begun will be brought to completion by a sovereign God who has a plan for building His heavenly kingdom.” ~ thatmom
thatmom says:
"A family that embraces a paradigm becomes lazy and doesn’t study the Word of God for themselves. They take what others state as gospel. They have to check in with the “expert” blogs to see how so and so is doing it. It requires little effort and, truthfully, little leadership on the part of the parents. Dads who think they are turning the hearts of their children to themselves are really turning the hearts of their children to the dad’s gurus!" ~ thatmom
thatmom also says:
“After parenting for 36 years, I have come to realize that all paradigms are basically a list of do’s and don’ts that someone has created. Instead of embracing a list, I have discovered that it is best for me to run all ideas, philosophies, and paradigms through my “one-anothering hopper.” I ask myself if the suggestions or ideas I am hearing will serve to build my relationships or will serve to tear them down; will they reflect the one-anothering commands of Scripture? I ask if they are a picture of Christ and His relationship with me as His needy daughter. If not, I am not interested, no matter how much appeal they might have for any number of reasons.” ~ thatmom
thatmom says this, too:
“The word wisdom is used in Exodus to describe the knowledge that the Lord gave to the skilled artisans so they could make Aaron’s garments for worship. We are told that these workers “were given wisdom and understanding in knowledge and all manner of workmanship.” I have never had to sew any garments for a priest to wear for worship. I have not had to sew any draperies or build any walls or prepare any inner sanctuary as per the Lord’s instructions. But I have been called to give all I can toward the goal of building up children in the faith, preparing children for life outside my home, children whose bodies, we are told, are called the very temple of the Holy Spirit, children whose job it is to worship in spirit and in truth." ~ thatmom
what does thatmom believe?
" What is thy only comfort in life and death? "That I, with body and soul, both in life and death, am not my own, but belong unto my faithful Savior Jesus Christ; who, with His precious blood, has fully satisfied for all my sins, and delivered me from all the power of the devil; and so preserves me that without the will of my heavenly Father, not a hair can fall from my head; yea, that all things must be subservient to my salvation, and therefore, by his Holy Spirit, He also assures me of eternal life, and makes me sincerely willing and ready, henceforth, to live unto him." ~ Heidelberg Catechism
What does it mean to be a Christian?

1.We must acknowledge that we are all sinners. “For we are all become as one that is unclean, and all our righteousnesses are as a polluted garment: and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, take us away. (Isaiah 64:6) and “All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.” (Romans 3:23)

2.We are all accountable for our own sins before God. “For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil.” (2 Corinthians 5:10)

3.There is only one way to be forgiven of these sins and that is through the blood of Jesus Christ. “Jesus said, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” (John 14:6)

4.If we confess our sin to the Lord and repent of it (not allow it to rule in our lives) we can be forgiven and be in right standing with God. “If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousenss.” (1 John 1:9)

5.Genuine salvation will result in living lives of good works but none of those works contribute in any way to our standing before God which is based solely and completely on the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross. “But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, He sat down at the right hand of God. (Hebrews 10:12) and “Not by works of righteousness which we have done but according to His mercy He saved us by the washing of regeneration and the renewing of the Holy Spirit. (Titus 3:5) and “For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God.” (Ephesians 2:8)

6.We all, men and women, boys and girls, have direct access to the throne of grace because everyone who is a born-again believer in Jesus Christ is called a “priest and king” in God’s economy. “But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for His own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light.” (I Peter 2:9)

I believe that many of the false teachings within the patriocentric movement are in direct contrast to these Scriptures and I would encourage each of us to first examine what we believe about Jesus and His work on the cross, its implications and its marvelous power.

Secondly, I would challenge anyone reading here to examine your own heart and ask yourself whether you have been trusting in good works….baptism, homeschooling, church attendance, modest dress, the list goes on and on, or if you have placed ALL your faith and hope in Jesus’ blood and righteousness alone.

And finally, I would challenge you to examine the teachings within your own church system, whether it is Protestant, Greek Orthodox, Roman Catholic, etc. Ask yourself what your church teaches about ecclesiastical authority and family authority. Does it line up with the Word of God? It is a top down system that requires certain works in exchange for a relationship with Jesus Christ or do you have the assurance that you are saved for eternity by His death on the cross in your stead? Does it teach that the fruits of the spirit and obedience to all the one anothers is what our lives will demonstrate or is there a list of man made rules?

If you desire to talk with me about this, please send me a note to shesthatmom@gmail.com. My desire is that no one who visits this website will leave without knowing the glorious truth that we can have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ and can enjoy a life filled with His goodness and grace!

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credits
Adoration of the Home was painted by regional artist, Grant Wood. The original hangs in the Cedar Rapids Museum of Art. Ben Campbell and Lon Eldridge deserve extra cookies for writing, performing, recording, and mixing Mom’s Prairie Song for the podcast intro and outro. Great job, guys. Garrison Keillor would be proud.

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