Karen Pollitt ~ 2011 Canton Friendship Festival Queen
I have met quite a few first time homeschoolers over the past few months. Excited to begin this amazing journey, they are gathering supplies, ordering books, and making lists of interesting places for hands-on learning. They are also fielding those all-too familiar and nonsensical questions we have all heard: “Do you really think you are qualified?” Is this legal?” And the ever-popular “What about socialization?”
Contrary to the way fashionable culture and the liberal, pro-education union folks spin it, the majority of homeschoolers are anything but the poorly socialized, stereotypical backward nerds depicted in movies and TV shows. If there ever was any doubt about that, I would love to have introduced the naysayers to the past couple of classes of public speaking students I have had the privilege of teaching.
You get to know kids pretty well after spending hours listening to them talk and it quickly became apparent that this was a group of young people with character and conviction, a pretty powerful combination. I heard speeches on the importance of adopting orphans, being involved in pro-life work, a zeal for foreign missions, a theological perspective on The Shack, and a powerful apologetic on the value of homeschooling. There were many, many presentations on people and events in history that still affect us today and it wasn’t unusual to hear endearing stories of family relationships and gratefulness expressed for their parents. I was amazed at the diversity of interests and the passion they expressed as they shared their lives with each other.
But what probably meant more to me than anything else was the gracious and encouraging way they evaluated the other students’ presentations, continually challenging each other to become better speakers, gently correcting each other, joyfully spurring one another on, and sincerely enjoying each other. These homeschooled students understood how to one another each other and reveled in the gifts and talents the Lord has given to them. Every hour spent with them was a delight and a picture of the hope homeschooled young people offer to our society. Not once did I feel the need to correct behavior, see any inappropriate treatment of each other, or hear a vulgarity. How amazing is that in this crass and unkind world in which we live today?
I often remarked to my husband and friends that I wish everyone could experience the maturity and grace I saw on those Tuesday afternoons. Thankfully, this past weekend provided an opportunity for that as one of my students, Karen Pollitt, won the title of Canton Friendship Festival Queen. It was a privilege to hear her speak and to watch her beautifully pointe dance to Jacques Offenbach’s Orpheus in the Underworld. And the cherry on top of the evening was seeing Karen also receive the Miss Congenialty award, a true testimony to her gracious encouragement to all the other pageant participants. What a joy it was to sit with a group of homeschoolers who had come to cheer Karen on and to offer our congratulations to her mom and dad, Kevin and Susie Pollitt, for their investment in her life, the fruits of their faithful labor through the years!
So, naysayers, put that in your socialization pipe and smoke it!
2010 Speech Class
2011 Speech Class
26 Responses to what about socialization?
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“Not once did I feel the need to correct behavior, see any inappropriate treatment of each other, or hear a vulgarity. How amazing is that in this crass and unkind world in which we live today?”
Perfect little Christian home schooled teens again? I have read this before, I know it. =)
My guess is that their behaviors have needed corrected plenty of times in this life, just perhaps not in the hour they spent with you. And of course they would be on their best behavior: all people behave better in the presence of an authority figure. Ask anyone who has ever been bullied. It doesn’t happen in full sight of an authority figure. People, religious people ESPECIALLY, are very good at being unkind without saying a word- a quiet turning away from eager conversation, a pretense that one didn’t hear the person being ill-treated. Subtle bad behavior hurts so much more, and there is zero chance of ever being reprimanded for it.
And ah yes, the absence of vulgarity as a high and lofty virtue. Well, I suppose if the outside of the cup is the most important thing to you, vocabulary matters a great deal. I think the Lord is looking on the heart, however, so a lack of vulgarity is not exactly a ringing endorsement. I would be willing to bet none of the Pharisees plotting against Jesus used a ruffian’s vocabulary either, though it is likely that the fisherman Jesus chose as disciples did. We don’t use the term “cuss like a sailor” for no reason!
“You get to know kids pretty well after spending hours listening to them talk and it quickly became apparent that this was a group of young people with character and conviction, a pretty powerful combination. ” I agree. Christian home schooled your have strong convictions- the only ones they have ever been allowed to have. I have run into some of these “strong convictions” myself recently. Nuff said there.
I would be much more impressed if you spoke as if these kids you teach are normal human persons, rather than the super-ideal specimen of youth that you propose they are. Genuine people, people who have some real life experience before forming strong convictions (i.e. becoming opinionated) would be proof that your students are socialized in ways that makes them acceptable and accepting in society. That’s what people mean when they say “socialization”.
They mean, “will they be able to get along in college, at work, on the community sports field?” They wonder, “will these graduates need to spend their whole lives in an exclusive Christian enclave or will they be able to mingle happily with the many Muslim, Buddhist, atheist, agnostic, etc. in our world today?” They do not at all doubt that they will come out polite, well-mannered and having strong convictions. The worry is that this is ALL they will be.
Just so you understand what people mean when they ask that question. They do NOT mean, “will they grow up to be good Christian boys and girls with right wing political beliefs”? They mean, is there any chance the Christian home schooled kids will grow up to appreciate and understand people who do NOT fit that description?
That is the real socialization question.
I am being bullied at church in exactly the way Shadowspring describes. The pastor’s wife will look through me and not greet me except when her husband is looking. All of the ladies who are part of the “in” group at church ignore me and often do not greet me, so after a few times I stopped going to the women’s Bible study.
Shadowspring is also right subtle bullying like this is more devestating. For a long time, I thought I was imagining it because I used to be Catholic and I was unfamiliar with Protestant culture. After several years, I became convinced that what I was observing was real and not my imagination. Then I attributed it to poor social skills because I was shy and suffered from social anxiety. So for the past couple of years, I have worked very on overcoming my social anxiety and improving my social skills. Friends have told me I have made enormous progress, which will serve me well in other endeavors but has not helped at church.
This situation is very painful for me. I have not lost my faith, but I intend to quit church once I graduate with my advanced degree. I am staying at my church for now because it is close to campus and I need a parking permit.
Love the photos! You all look like you are having a great time
Shadowspring–you made a lot of assumptions about Karen, leaped to some unfounded conclusions about her and the kids she is describing, and about homeschooling/ers in general. “Perfect little Christian home schooled teens again? I have read this before, I know it. =)” When did she say those kids were perfect? She simply described their interactions in this situation–which were positive. She made no claim of these kids’ perfection.
And why does expressing praise for the absence of vulgarity mean that it’s to the exclusion of caring about the internal status of the kids? I see no basis for your judgement.
“All people behave better in the presence of an authority figure. Ask anyone who has ever been bullied. It doesn’t happen in full sight of an authority figure. People, religious people ESPECIALLY, are very good at being unkind without saying a word- a quiet turning away from eager conversation, a pretense that one didn’t hear the person being ill-treated. Subtle bad behavior hurts so much more, and there is zero chance of ever being reprimanded for it.” OK, not going to argue that bullying takes place away from authority–obviously, bullies are cowards; and I agree that spiritual abuse is especially hurtful…but what does that have to do with these kids? Are you again making an assumption about them–that away from an adult they would resort to spiritually bullyish behavior? Perhaps they would, perhaps they wouldn’t–just as kids who are not homeschooled sometimes bully and sometimes don’t, and behave better around authority figures.
“You get to know kids pretty well after spending hours listening to them talk and it quickly became apparent that this was a group of young people with character and conviction, a pretty powerful combination. ” What’s wrong with teaching kids according to your own convictions? Isn’t that what most parents do? Again, you’re assuming they’ve never been presented with other opinions. There are homeschooling parents who present other points of view, whose children play with other kids who have other points of view…we also discuss the differences between my husband’s and my views, differences between my beliefs and some of my church’s doctrines. And you’re assuming these kids are only “allowed” to believe what their parents believe…again, don’t most kids adopt their parents beliefs? And why does that mean other opinions/expressions aren’t allowed? We allow for that here–and I’m sure I’m not the only one.
“They do NOT mean, “will they grow up to be good Christian boys and girls with right wing political beliefs”? They mean, is there any chance the Christian home schooled kids will grow up to appreciate and understand people who do NOT fit that description?” I’ve been around many homeschoolers, and I don’t think many of them would interpret socialization as how you defined it. It is much richer than that. You are labeling homeschoolers as very superficial and judgemental. Maybe that has been your experience–but it has not been mine. Yes, there are homeschoolers who label and judge others; there are non-homeschoolers who do the same.
I think you missed the crux of what Karen was saying: “But what probably meant more to me than anything else was the gracious and encouraging way they evaluated the other students’ presentations, continually challenging each other to become better speakers, gently correcting each other, joyfully spurring one another on, and sincerely enjoying each other. These homeschooled students understood how to one another each other and reveled in the gifts and talents the Lord has given to them.” Isn’t that positive socialization? lovingly correcting, positively encouraging, actively listening? Why pick that apart?
As far as the socialization question goes…..my kids are off the charts on being socialized! Whew hoo!!! Ha ha…seriously…..I totally love your post! It really doesn’t matter where these kids go in the future and who they work with, attend college with, or play community sports with….they have attained the skills to talk and “socialize” with them. Whether they choose to use the skills they have attained when their parents aren’t around will be their choice and if they choose wrong there will be natural consequences.
We are a Christian homeschooling household. I don’t see what the difference is between the public school child who lives in a Christian household and my kids who are home schooled and live in a Christian household. Except let me think…..I have a ton more teachable moments with my kids. Are my boys perfect? Far from it. Just the other day I had to get after them as we went into the library. All three boys went in front of me and did not hold the door open for me and the baby in the stroller. And they even made it difficult for a few patrons that were trying to exit the building. I called them all back and retrained them on manners and had them get behind me and hold the door open for me. A gentleman that was observing this entire incident thanked me as I went inside. Teachable social moment.
My boys are not only involved in church activities but also……wait for it…….public social activities. I know, I know….shocking isn’t it. They play soccer, are very active in 4H, attend non home schooled children birthday parties, attend ICC College for Kids, etc, etc. And time after time I have had coaches and leaders tell me how well behaved and polite my boys are. Obviously they are not always that way but in social situations when I am not there they certainly know how to be. And yes…..they get to be around people with different backgrounds, abilities, political views, and religions all the time. You should really hear some of the conversations that take place!
All that being said…shadowspring–it sounds to me as if you have been wounded by a homeschooling and/or “Christian” community–if that is the case, I am sorry you have experienced that. And Theresa–I am sorry for your painful experiences, too. I hope that you are able to find healing, and am glad you have not lost your faith in Jesus.
Wow, Shadowspring…sarcastic much? I certainly hope your malicious reponse of nit-picking Karen’s entire post is not an example of “socialization”.
“Just so you understand what people mean when they ask that question. They do NOT mean, “will they grow up to be good Christian boys and girls with right wing political beliefs”? They mean, is there any chance the Christian home schooled kids will grow up to appreciate and understand people who do NOT fit that description?
That is the real socialization question.”
That’s a rather broad assumption on what “they” mean when “they” ask that question. Who are “they”, exactly, and have you spoken to “them” specifically about this? Or do you just “know” what’s on “their” minds?
The fact is the class of homeschoolers Karen has been referring to showed themselves to be well-behaved and intelligent, in Karen’s experience. If you, Shadowspring, feel that Karen’s experience with these specific homeschoolers is somehow inaccurate, please elaborate with facts. Broadsweeping statements that assume to know the minds of others one have never met is pointless rhetoric that clearly highlights one’s prejudice against a group or class of people. In this case, homeschoolers.
Shadowspring- I would really like to hear what happened to you in the conservative Christian world that obviously hurt you so deeply. We have encountered many negative attitudes as well and my husband has a rueful saying-”Christians are some of the meanest people we know…”
But, it is a mistake to rush to judgement about every group of homeschooled kids you encounter. At times, I have sarcastic thoughts when we read glowing accounts of the family where every child is perfectly behaved and the young adult sons and daughters are “asleep” to the opposite sex….really??? I think not. I wonder what kind of denial or delusion the parent is into… HOWEVER, I remind myself that I am full of faults and always rooting out pride and that I should keep in mind that there are other homeschooling families out there who know that no person or system is perfect and that kids must be allowed to experience life , for good and for bad, in a world that needs Christ.
I think you have valid points that you are perhaps misdirecting, though. I don’t think that this site or Karen Campbell herself present an unrealistic picture of the homeschool kid being superior to other kids, rather, I get the impression she and others that write here are just love the experience of homeschooling and the adventure that comes with it, and that enjoyment spills over into her appreciation of young people.
Do you think it would be beneficial that kids would use vulgarity in a group setting? Without arguing the morality of language , or do we use certain words and not others,or do we watch movies with R rated dialoge- don’t you think it is good preparation for becoming a sucessful adult to at least know how to speak appropriately in class? I certainly agree that language is often an external, and that Jesus does not have a requirement for refined speech. I personally think that were Jesus physically here today, we might all be astounded by who He associated with. But- why do you assume these kids were bullied by religion simply because they weren’t out there swearing a blue streak?
I suspect we would agree on many things, and I am encouraged by your faithfulness to Christ. I just don’t know why you seem so angry at this particular site.
Every educational system indoctrinates its students with its own worldview. That’s really the bottom line. And that’s why I love teaching with Sonlight because while it comes from a Christian perspective, I’m still exposing my kids to ideas like evolution, other religious figures like Mother Teresa, religions like Hinduism and Buddhism and Islam and all done in the context of a loving home that believes in extending love to others, regardless of differences. I NEVER encourage my children to look down on others because they’re not homeschooled or not Christian. The second you start teaching falsehoods like, “I’m so glad I’m not like THEM.” You’ve become the Pharisee in Luke 18.
My kids are naughty like everyone else’s. I yell at them in the heat of the moment. I’m also a pastor’s wife. I screw up like everyone else does but I know there is grace for me and I try to extend that same grace towards others. So Shadowspring-If you’ve not been shown grace, I’m sorry. Maybe try to meditate on the grace Christ has shown you and extend that to others as well?
“And ah yes, the absence of vulgarity as a high and lofty virtue. Well, I suppose if the outside of the cup is the most important thing to you, vocabulary matters a great deal.”
I’ve been on the receiving end of nasty language, and it did matter a great deal…It wasn’t all ‘peace and love’ in the 1970s, I’m afraid.
PS If y’all could see the rioters in London tonight, you’d all agree that a few lessons on please and thank you are not a malign thing at all…
PPS My husband will be back on duty driving a bus in London tomorrow. I’m sure he’d be grateful for your prayers
The sins of a partial group give license to bitter people to smear the entire group. Some blacks are criminals, therefore all blacks are criminals. Some home-schoolers are haughty and judgmental, so all home-schoolers are haughty and judgmental. Both statements are bigoted.
shadowspring – I don’t know your background, but I really think you are way off in your assessment of Karen and what she writes here. We’ve been reading each other’s blogs and interacting through emails for over six years. She is one of the most real, down to earth, caring homeschooling moms I’ve encountered online. She works very hard to balance truth and compassion, justice and grace.
I honestly think you are reading a great deal into what Karen is saying and seeing a whole lot that just isn’t there. I can think of lots of homeschooling blogging moms who would qualify as holier than thou and condescending. Karen isn’t one of them.
Shadowspring’s general comments that are not true of all homeschooled children. My protogee left for college today after being homeschooled through high school and winning a full scholarship. She wants to become a doctor and spread the Gospel as a medical missionary. I find her homeschooled friends delightful because they are intelligent, polite and caring in their faith.
Jack is levying the oh so familiar charge of being bitter against Shadowspring. The common usage of this word is that anyone who is upset or angry is bitter, whether or not the person is justified in their anger. The comments of Shadowspring are admittedly a generalization that could be annoying to some people.
Rather then denounce Shadowspring as bitter and therefore bad, worthless, and not worthy of any consideration at all, it would be more helpful to consider what happened to make Shadowspring so angry. A few years ago I was also denounced as bitter because I was still angry about certain egregious things. I am very sorry that Shadowspring went through what must have been very difficult experiences.
Wow, I was pretty surprised that so much vitriol toward homeschoolers by a homeschooler would come pouring out on this blog, of all places! I also got a good chuckle implying that my group of public speaking students come from patriocentric families. Does anyone here actually believe those families would let their kids within 10 feet of me?
I am the first one to recognize that there is absolutely no such thing as a perfect child and if someone tried to tell me about one, I would be frightened… too much like Hitler’s youth! What I love about teaching older homeschoolers (mine were in the 12-18 year age range)is that I get to reap all the benefits of all the hard work and diligence of their parents! Clay has been bugging me to write about these classes since the first month I had the first group because I couldn’t stop raving about them! To me, seeing kids like this is such an encouragement for parents to keep on going through the high school years. I often hear parents express concern that their kids won’t be prepared to go out into the world if they aren’t “exposed” to other kids or that they won’t know how to interact with nonhomeschoolers. My experience has been just the opposite. Since there is little to no peer dependence, these kids are typically ready to take on adult responsibilities. The fact that this homeschooled young woman was voted the most friendly and encouraging by a group of ALL public school kids and the adults that worked with them for the past 6 months speaks VOLUMES to me. This was a score for all homeschoolers, even the ones here who don’t want us to represent them! And over the next year she will be the Queen of Friendship too boot! How awesome is that?
One more thing….about the vulgarity….I happened to be sitting in the auditorium that night with a group of homeschoolers I know to one side of me and a group of other kids I don’t know on the other side. I do not know where they were schooled but wherever it was, their parents and/or teachers should be ashamed. There was so much mocking and hooting about the queen candidates with lots of choice sexual commentary and the two guys in front of me were enjoying a complete lust fest. The icing on the cake was the two high school age girls behind me who said “This candidate says the famous person she would like to me is JFK. Isn’t he, like, dead or something?” “Yeah,” said her friend. “And who the heck is George Washington Carver?”
Julie, you are absolutely correct, every single educational experience comes with a worldview and an agenda. It is up to us a parents to choose which one we believe is best for our own children. As Christians, that becomes even more important. I appreciate your words on Sonlight. I know many friends who have expressed the same thing. One of the things I appreciated about this group of students was that they were thoughtful and not at all “programmed.” You would be surprised at how NOT programmed they were! One student talked about the rain forest and also about the value of women’s suffrage, both taboo subjects in many homeschooling circles!
Anthea, praying for you this morning and for your husband. I have been following this all with much more interest since your comment. I am having a hard time understanding what started all of this rioting in the first place and what is perpetuating it. Please fill us in.
One funny socialization story for you…
All of our boys had various jobs while they were growing up and there was a time when the oldest two were teens at home that it seemed the opportunities for them to work was endless; everyone wanted them to work because they were hard and diligent workers. They had a lawn mowing business, paper routes, waited tables in 2 local restaurants, and worked for contractors all at once. People we knew used to think we had more kids than we had because they saw them working everywhere!
One summer one of our boys had worked lots of places and used some of his money to join a friend on a trip to Washington D.C. They had ridden the train all night from his friend’s home in Pennsylvania to D.C. and arrived about 5:00 am. Excited to be there and not wanting to miss anything, they headed for Arlington Cemetery without showering or shaving and wearing wrinkled clothing and backpacks. As they walked through the grounds, a group of military cadets came jogging by and with disgust, hollered at them “get a job.” We all got a big kick out of that one!
Oh, those over protected homeschoolers!
Anger at times is justified, in fact, at times anger is the morally right and emotionally healthy response to evil (Ephesians 5:26). But bitterness, which is anger that has lasted far after the “sun has gone down” is never OK, never, under any circumstance. Nor is unjust judging. Both are sins, and God requires repentance of both.
Hello Karen
A brief rundown of the background to events in the UK:
For a few years, in response to concern about gun crime in London, a specialist programme has been in place. As part of that, the police went to arrest a man. An officer was shot, but was saved by the radio in his pocket. The suspect was killed. A group of locals were unhappy about his death and felt that the full facts had not been shared with the dead man’s family. There was a small peaceful demonstration in the area of North London where the man died.
This is where it gets rotten. Other people went to the area intent on robbery and violence. The riot raged in Tottenham (“Totnam”) that night. The following night other youths in areas nearby went out to loot, burn and do violence. It had been preplanned on Facebook. (My sister lives in Bordeaux and rang our mother to ask her why people were going to riot in Enfield and Waltham Cross. She knew about it hours before it happened!!)
All over the place very very young men and women are strolling along to the local Foot Locker or Carphone Warehouse and taking what they want. Some are as young as 8. Most of them look 14-18 to me. Some are posting photos of themselves on Twitter, posing with their booty.
This is not about being poor or black or upset with the government. They aren’t shouting, “No justice, no peace.” They are lawless amoral youth who have little fear of being caught or facing consequences.
Short answer? It’s about Genesis 3.
It’s not all bad news. This article makes the point that British society was really in a bad way before the Wesleyan revival
http://www.crossrhythms.co.uk/articles/life/John_Smith_Final_Reflection__The_Wesleyan_Revival/40765/p1/
Thanks for that description of your classes, Karen! I also have taught homeschool highschool kids in co-ops for years. The classes and the students have so blessed my life. I have been surprised and touched and changed by the topics they have chosen in the speech classes. Last year we tried a debate in class. I was nervous not having done one before. ALL the kids conducted themselves with such decorum. I had tears in my eyes several times with the depth of their arguments for their side. Really an incredible experience.
I’m preparing lesson plans now for three classes I’m teaching in the fall. I needed that boost looking forward to interacting with these amazing kids again. Thanks.
In response to the criticisms. One thing I have noticed in general about homeschooled highschoolers is how easily they talk to adults. We have had some of the best discussions about “the real world” because they are not intimidated to discuss things with me.
Anthea, thanks for explaining this. I have been watching the news and thinking of you all. Praying you are safe.
Lorene, thanks for sharing your stories! I am taking this fall off of teaching to work on a couple other big projects but hope to have another speech class again sometime.
Hello Karen
We are all safe, but the smell from THIS nearby event
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/08/09/article-2023874-0D5D22DA00000578-53_964x855.jpg
is terrible. Yesterday the smoke could be seen from miles away.
Hubby had a quiet eve and night on Tuesday. Most of the shops were closed all day, some closed early. He said that it was sad to see so many empty streets. He had far fewer passengers as many people stayed home.
Hey Karen
You will enjoy this. Fast forward to 1 hour 51 minutes. Dan Snow is a young presenter of history TV programmes, and it’s a great “feel good” story coming out of the riots.
He also explains the rotten state of London in the 1700s very well. It’s only 5 mins long.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0132pzn/5_live_Breakfast_10_08_2011/
Anthea, just listened to that program and was fascinated by his assessment. We saws a very similar type of scary gang demonstration in Peoria, IL. on the 4th of July. Hadn’t connected the two until I heard this commentary. Frightening.